I started to reply to my friend, Celtic’s, comment but it got so long, I decided to make it a post. I am not calling him out but our comments have strayed away from the original post of bombing and trying to force out a Christian bookstore in Gaza. (To Celtic, I did respond to your last comment though. The comment I am responding to you is your second last).

We’ve been discussing whether or not America is an extension of the Church and vice versa. I emphatically believe that they are not, evidence of which I pointed out is not only the principle of church and state but especially the fact that Bibles are not permitted in schools. And so here we are.

Celtic, I appreciate the way you said that first line, “I believe you but …”
I honestly thought it was common knowledge that everyone knew you Bible and public schools are very controversial. My comment was specifically directed about the organization of after-school, student-led Bible study groups. There have been a lot of cases taken against school districts over this issue.

Religion in Public Schools
Brochure on School Prayer from Americans United for Sep. of Church and State
Public School Religious Groups
College Bans Dormitory Bible Studies
Good News Club v. Milford Central School District
Student sues after Bible study banned

This is a huge subject and the commentary on any of these links could take us in a number of directions. Also, I am not defending the lawsuits or the cases being made. The first link is the one that I would say is the fairest and if the groups comply with this precedent then great. The second is a brochure on the law on school prayer. The remaining links point to the controversy involving tax dollars, school time, who can be involved, the conditions etc. As said, even if I don’t agree with some of these cases, I am trying to direct you to the use of subject of Bibles in schools which leads to the bigger point that the Church and America are not brother-sister or extensions of each other. IF public schools were teaching from the Bible that Christianity was the truth, then you would have a very strong case.

Consequently, it has become even more difficult for any student-led group of any kind to organize from gay/lesbian groups to other religious groups because it has become such a volatile issue.

So you know, I am not calling for government sanctioned Bible or prayers in our schools. I think it would be a bad thing to have teachers teach Christianity (who may or may not be believers or a desire to teach Christianity. Even worse would be to force someone …).

In high school, I was invited to one and just didn’t enjoy it. For me, I already saw many of these people in church and regularly attended my church so by the time school got out, I either had extra-curriculars, or wanted to go home, go out with friends, or do pretty much anything else then have another Sunday School class or whatever. That was me. As much as this may appear to be a contradiction to what I am posting about, others can have their own opinions and preferences and reasons for wanting such things. I know their club got along for years just fine without me.

There’s more to it though, I know some schools who teach world religion classes systematically and have heard mention of other various other religious classes from a historical or literary perspective. Not relevant here but a case could be made for that as well.

But in regards to what I think of this, I was bothered about the huge issue that was made up of the kindergartener who had Jesus in his painting had wasn’t allowed to have the painting in their art show. Come on.
http://Peck v. Baldwinsville Central School District
2nd Circuit again finds family can sue over Jesus poster

But the point of saying all this is to give even more context to when I continue to insist that Christianity is not an extension of America. In my opinion, it’s a global faith and as I have mentioned before our better scholars predict the epic-centers of Christianity will actually be in South America, Asia and perhaps even Africa and America will look a lot like Europe does now. As I read that book (The Next Christianity by Phillip Jenkins) I thought it may be a little exaggerated but believed that the “power” would be spread. (But I am not a theologian and I have a high respect for Dr. Jenkins). However to his credit, the thought that the biggest churches in the world are in Asia confirms some of this. Soon, there will be South Korean theologians who write from South Korea as opposed to an American seminary. I could go on and on about this and why the biggest churches are in Asia but I am getting sidetracked. But I hope you are seeing what I mean when I say Christianity and America are not extensions of each other. In fact, I think it is completely the contrary. America is becoming more and more secular. “Happy Holidays” vs. “Merry Christmas” is small practical evidence of this.

Celtic, I think I am understanding how you see that above paragraph. I could go through the trouble and copy and paste your last comment (or two comments ago really) but before either of us do, let me say that I can agree with you in the sense that religion can and has been used for political reasons; I do not think I have ever argued against it when put like that. What I will argue against is the idea that the primary use of religion or the implication that religion is “power” to manipulate the “masses” (you of course know the infamous line I am referring to). In that sense, I never want to see my faith used for political reason. Now, before you jump on that, let me also say that my faith extends to every aspect of life (my life and life in general) so it does affect what I believe, say and do socially, environmentally, politically, missionally, etc. But all of our actions take root and begin from our belief systems whether we claim a religion or not. Even more so, when people claim a religion and do something completely contrary to its teachings (like the killing of an abortion doctor is the example we have used several times here), their TRUE belief system is revealed! And not the one they claim to have!

There are several things I know you are trying to get me to see and one that I wish we could find more common ground on is the right role of faith/religion (its freedom) in private and secular life and how it is Scripturally speaking and from the teaching of our Bible-believing churches, it is not to be used for political and social gains but IS to change the heart of a person to what God has called us to: Love God, Love Others.