“…The reopening comes after an initial false report in late March that Gazan authorities had captured a small group responsible for the threats.
“It wasn’t true, so the threat is still on,” Massad wrote. “We do not know who is behind it.”
On 3 February, unidentified terrorists exploded two small pipe bombs in front of the bookshop, destroying its steel and glass doors.
A note left by the terrorists threatened to kill the landlord and others living in the building unless the Bible Society vacated by 28 February.
The terrorists also warned the Bible Society not to continue ministry elsewhere in the Palestinian territories….”
“The terrorists also warned the Bible Society not to continue ministry elsewhere in the Palestinian territories….”
What do you know, me and the terrorites agree on something.
The word “terrorist”. Interesting how anyone opposes U.S./Western hegemony is a “terrorist”.
Does thae make me one too?
Come on Celtic. This has nothing to do with the West. Christianty is not a product of the West, it’s origins are in the Middle East, it’s largest churches are in the East (China and Korea), part of its strength is in the West, part of its future will be in South America …it’s worldwide.
Anyway, you read it, the terrorists used pipe bombs and threatened the shopowners. I guess you can consider yourself one if you using violence or the threat of to preach your message. I haven’t seen any evidence of that but you your life better.
I am complaining about the lack of freedom of religion and freedom of speech, why can’t this be respected.
How can you agree with this violence?
However, Christianity, as I have pointed out time and again, is an instrument of Western imperialist rule. It is the religion of choice to this ruling class.
I would be complaining the same if our empire was a Muslim one and we invaded Christian nations.
Because of these actions, Americans are now the obvious and preferred targets of anybody with a gripe anywhere on the fucking planet.
The Christian fascists — an important part of the coalition around Bush — believe that Islam is “idol worship” and want very much to destroy it. The “war on terrorism” is a great “cause” to disguise their real agenda.
Just as it serves to disguise the “neo-con” agenda of conquest and plunder.
No doubt the more visionary of of the Islamic fascists imagine a “great Muslim Empire” — a future super-power that might even attempt the conquest of Europe under the banners of Islam.
But right now, they just want our asses out of “their” part of the world.
Do you blame them?
In terms of historical experience, Muslims have been generally less bloody than Christians — there’s no Muslim equivalent (so far) of witch-burning, Auschwitz, or Hiroshima.
Christian fascists see the coming decades as “the end times”…”their last chance” to conquer the world for Christianity — they’ve “hitched their wagon” to the American Empire for “spiritual reasons”. They believe (quite sincerely) that “God has chosen America to redeem the whole world…and welcome the return of Jesus.”
” I guess you can consider yourself one if you using violence or the threat of to preach your message”
HAHA Boy Jack, then I guess some of your Christians brethren are terrorists as well. I lead you to the internet and a quick Google search of Abortion clinics that have been bombed over the years by Christians perporting the will of GOD….
And I am curious where you stand is on Fred Phelps? Doo a Google or WIKIpedia search on him… He is as he says “Doing the work of God”
LCF, yes, like I have said from the beginning of our conversations, there have been some actions committed by “Christians” that have been wrong, terrible and evil. I have always used the example of killing abortion doctors and blowing up abortion clinics as examples. I would like to point out something very important that 99.99% (unfortunatley there are always a bunch of idiots in any system) of church leaders do not teach that is acceptable or righteous or pleasing to God. But even more importantly, our such actions and attitudes are contrary to our Scriptures.
I’ve posted on Fred Phelps and I detest his actions and his teachings. Very contrary to the heart of Scripture. In fact, when him calling himself a Christian is like Donald Trump calling himself a communist. (This post was back on April 20) Denouncing Fred Phelps
Hey Celitc,
Regarding your earlier comments, I am not going to argue with your perception of it. I don’t agree but at least you are being consistent with your vantage point.
Not that I have actually kept score on who has actually killed more people but this sentence is terribly wrong on so many levels, especially historically.
“In terms of historical experience, Muslims have been generally less bloody than Christians — there’s no Muslim equivalent (so far) of witch-burning, Auschwitz, or Hiroshima.”
I don’t feel like arguing about witch-burning, but that certainly wasn’t the Church being “Christ-like”. Add to the fact, that many of godly Reformers (the Protestants who left the Catholic Church and were trying to restore Biblical principles to the Church) were burned at the stake as well.
“Auschwitz, or Hiroshima” are not Christian acts. They are not.
America is not an extension of the Church. In a land of separation of church and state and made obvious by the fact that Bibles are banned from our public schools, it’s difficult to make the case that this in fact a Christian country. (Which I am fine with it not being a Christian country but not fine with hostility towards Christianity or any other religion).
Had your last paragraph not been attached to the previous paragraph, I would have thought you stole this thought from me (except I rarely use the word fascist but …).
I keep trying to say it, I am not fighting to “reclaim America for God” as the televangelists like to say. However, I value preserving tradition (which could only take a long to explain) but in any case, I am more interested in building the spiritual kingdom of God as opposed to the temporary one here on this earth. That may or may not make sense depending on what you know of the Christian faith. Maybe another time, I’ll try to unpackage that further.
But this post was about religious freedom and I believe part of building the spiritual kingdom is about being faithful and pursuing justice on issues like that.
Jack–
Where is the bible banned in school? I believe you, but where and under what condition?
Is it really banned, or are students not allowed to interrupt class time to pray/read scriptures?
“America is not an extension of the Church.
Not officially. The emerging bourgeois democrat class the broke off from the Catholic-feudal system were big believers in science, reason, and seperation of church and state. This was, historically speaking, very progressive. The is a reason why religious fanatics rule was called “the dark ages” and the bourgeois-democrat rule was called “The Enlightment”.
But there are forces trying to push society back. They want a theology.
But religion, again, is a function of the superstructure of a society. So in these terms, Christianity = Western capitalism.
But back to the point, I find you’re really uncritical alliance with Israel disturbing. They have no claim in Palestine. And I don’t understand a person who claims to want the compassion of Jesus to side with the Nazi-like regime in Israel with its imperial allias in the West. A suicide bomber might kill a handful of people, but state sponsored terrorism like the Israeli kind can kill millions.
My only comment for you Jack, take it as something you may want to look at for your own future growth is this….
You consistantly make the comment, and I quote you loosly, that you do not keep score and you do not want to get into a whole who killed more people battle, BUT something struck me today in analysing some of your posts, You VERY much get into the who killed how many and the whole keeping score. So my question to you is, Do you consider the posts where you list numbers and statistics as being MORE relevnat than the posts of Celtic and I listing numbers and statistics? You may not realize you do this, but you do and it is rather hypocritical and annoying.
You’re funny like that. When we were talking about this on LCF’s blog, I believe I was accused by the two of you of not choosing a side. Now you are assigning me one.
I never said I supported Israel. I have family members (as in those I still spend holidays with) that fought against Israel during wartimes. But I don’t hate Israel either, nor do I hate Palestine. Wrong actions have been committed by both sides. Like I’ve told you, this is a complicated issue. Evidence of that has been no solution not just since Israel was re-instituted but for thousands of years now!
But I hate evil regardless of government, regardless of class, even if the action is committed by me (and so I seek forgiveness from God). But this post was about a Christian bookstore in Gaza being forced out by violent means.
If we are going to get into what we find annoying, we’ll be here for a while.
You have mentioned how much I annoy you several times now and that’s fine. Though it’s not my intention to annoy you but to give my perspective on things, I could very easily flip it and say the same of you but what would that accomplish? Our goal here should be to have an intelligent and civil (but a polite one would be idea) discussion about important matters. If you don’t want me to post on your blog because I annoy you, say so and I won’t post anymore. You are welcome here until you are not. You used to push my buttons but after a while I saw that this was your intention and so I took your comments from that perspective.
I have really enjoyed the conversation with your husband Celtic Fire and I don’t say this to insult you but my hope has always been that we be able to discuss matters as he and I try to do. You would need to show me an example when I have disregarded a use of his statistics. I think it’s quite the contrary because he argues within a context. What I appreciate is his use of history to reinforce his perspective. We’re not ideal but it works for now.
Regarding the score-keeping and your suggestion for my growth, thanks and though I am tempted to reciprocate the thought, I’ll withhold for now. Statistics are important but not the greatest of importance because they are often manipulated. So we need to understand them within a context. SO it helps to have statistics and links to add credibility to the things we say. Like I still get a good chuckle from your immigration post when you said, “but I hate to break it to ya, Hispanic/Latino people make up only a SMALL portion of the illegal immigrants coming into this country. The vast majority of illegal immigrants coming to this country are from Asian countries… OH MY, didn’t know that did ya…”
I got could have some kind of verification on that. I know you feel you addressed that but I would have loved to have seen a link or a stat or at least one 5 or 6 million Asian people marching for Imig. Rights. (Even a couple of them. I didn’t see any let alone them being the majority.)
“The score” (to continue to use the metaphor) only helps give perspective, it does not necessarily justify or condemn something. It plays more of a support. I say that to say, it doesn’t matter who actually killed more people in a discussion as much as it matters why they were killed. This is what complicates the issues. I believe this is the another line that annoys you but I don’t say it for this reason but again, to reinforce why I say what I say.
What I “get into” more is the motives and the reasons, the consequences the justice and injustice of say, persecution. Specifically to this post, all I initially intended to say was that a Christian bookstore in Gaza should not be pressured out by pipe bombs and threats and violence. On my scorecard, this is unjust.
and on my score it is justice. If the governments of these nations refuse to even listen to their own people, then the people will inevitably take up arms against their oppsressors…